Podcast Transcript
hi my name is Rachel Honda from straet jacket podcast I’m Jeff from Mental Health Resource and my name is yine male and I
am an intern therapist here at trust y so y Meine what got you into
this field and maybe just tell us a little bit about yourself in general well uh I think that anyone
who’s a therapist or decides it’s like there are so many different things that we experience that kind of gets you on
this path um I always like to I’m professor of mine said that she feels like a becoming a therapist isn’t really
a job as it is a vocation um so it is really like this feeling of being called to be of service
in a way um I had my own experiences growing up so I lost my mother when I
was 12 and kind of got lost in the mental health system a bit and then you
know kind of things happen along the way into young adulthood um but as I entered my 30s I realized that a lot of things
or a lot of behavior your patterns that I have or like issues in my own relationships are based on kind of my
upbringing and experience and I really wanted to help in some way um and
originally I did want to do uh adolescence so that was my big thing when I first started to come into
therapy I want to work with kids but kind of one thing led to the next and here I am and I love it so it kind of
works out um and why did you want to work with um adolescence initially
because I because I mean directly when I was a kid I never felt heard or seen in
a lot of ways and I wanted to be that person for someone for a little one and
I just love kids they’re and I’m like a big kid so it kind of works out I’m like I’m always sitting on the floor and like
rolling around and um so yeah that was my original thought and that’s true all of us want to be seen and heard um so a
little bit more about um your background so my Underground is in
theater performance so I used to be an actor stage actor and that was where I kind of learned how like there was this
moment in school we learned that there are no bad characters There’s No Evil characters and the idea is that everyone
has a backstory and that the more we learn about a character or a person the
more we can see why they are and they act that they kind of like totally agree with that it’s like The Sopranos just
like The Sopranos yeah it’s like my favorite show of all time am yeah it’s like he’s like really like
you you really like the character but then at the end of the day like if you look at it like what he’s doing
currently like he’s a bad dude you know but I guess it’s like they kind of take that therapy approach and it’s like you
get to know the guy and you’re like okay like you know you can understand why yeah you
like have empathy towards them cuz think about it no one wakes up in the morning and they’re like you know what I’m going to be a jerk today right like that’s
just not like you know what I I’m mad at everyone and everything there’s a reason that our brain goes to that so that
really stuck with me when I was an undergrad and then as I kind of traveled and I started my current master’s degree
so I’m getting my marriage and family therapy Masters yay um but that that
kind of that Insight onto how we can look at other people as like in a sense
characters right like we’re all characters in our own play and why are we the characters that
we are and then can we change what we want our story to look like so that’s something that I that’s from narrative
therapy I didn’t make that up but um but I just I love it I think it’s really applicable in this
industry very true so how have you used it with other
people it’s made me a much softer person so
I if we think about if we can kind of Zoom the lens out when we have interaction with people and this is what
I learned it’s like when I think that someone is maybe being mean to me or if
I’m like even on the road and someone’s doing Road Rage or if I have like a maybe an uncomfortable interaction with
someone or if maybe they’re like being aggressive or I’m like perceiving them as you know kind of
or what this like learning this and having this perspective has made me more
empathetic and understanding and it honestly has made my life
easier like having that perspective when you meet new people or when you have interactions or like when you see people
fighting or it’s like there’s other things that were happening to that person before before
we’re seeing the surface like all these events led up to this moment and it’s like you know there’s like a crash yeah
so it’s like h i wonder like I don’t know I just I really feel like it’s benefited me as an individual
because I don’t get things don’t bother me as much as they used to I don’t take things personally yeah that’s huge and when you
approach things with compassion it’s like okay like you said you can you see
them more for like they’re being human basically yeah yeah
um so I just I understand that like yoga is like and like that type of stuff is like a big part of your modalities I
guess you call it right yes so I always forget about that so it’s actually funny because I feel
like so I’ve been teaching yoga for like what seven or eight years now
has you started into that when I was in high school my stepmom used to take me and what was kind of fun about the
experience I had is that the studio we went to was it was a man from India
who’s like a true Hindu like celibate his classes
were very specific on it was about it is about the yoga yes so there’s no like
bumping music or like it wasn’t hot yoga or anything like that it was I mean it was a hot in there but it wasn’t like
the only sounds that we had was him queuing in Sanskrit and like a breathing
machine just to like to hear like the like the breath so that we all end up like following the same breath pattern
that’s interesting because when you do a yoga an ASA practice of flow it’s the idea is every posture is moving to your
inhale or your exhale yeah and they’re specific so it’s like inhale Mountain pose exhale forward fold so there’s
specific breath patterns for it and I learned all that and I was like wow this
is so cool yeah and I took that and then when I was in my like mid mid 20s I got
a job as a mental health and wellness supervisor at a Girl Scout camp in
Colorado my favorite job the most funun it was so much fun at first it’s very
overwhelming because you’re like wow every week I have between 96 and 121 new kiddos you know running around and uh
what I learned at Girl Scout camp is that parents really like to see if their kids are going to do okay without their
medication while they’re at Camp so they’ll just send them to Camp without their anti-depressants or without their
sleep medications or without their adol and these are like seven to 14 year olds
so their body start going through through it yeah right and then they’re
withdrawing they don’t know what’s going on they’re confused and they start to get really stressed out plus especially the anti- depress and stuff like that’s
really dangerous yes not a choice I would personally make as a parent but
I’m not a parent yet so maybe I’ll change my mind but I don’t think so um but they would start like kind of going
through it plus they’re homesick plus there’s like you know girls are she took my I came find my glitter I swear to God
my roommate took it you know and there’s all these things so job is to literally like find holistic ways to keep everyone
chill enough happy enough that they have the best week at Camp ever so I really
tuned into the yoga and meditation and mindfulness and so 7 a.m. and it’s all
it kind of cool because it was um volunteer like like the girls don’t have
to get up at 6:30 to go to yoga at 7: a.m. you know but a lot of them chose to get up an hour early and they would tell
me wow I feel so much better like how old were they the mainly seven eight NY
olds wow insight and they were like I can I just I’ll never forget this moment
where I we’re all like sitting on our you know on our yoga mats and they’re all like sleepy and they’re like you know kind of like fidgety we’re in the
mountains and at some point maybe like a couple minutes in you could see how like
each girl how she kind of like would just like settle you know and it was just so sweet I’m like wow at that age
yeah MH so that was kind of where I was like okay there is some therapeutic value to
this and then kind of continuing on I teach here in California um and then I I
teach privates and then I also teach at an IOP in Huntington Beach so I kind of
got to practice on them for the last three and a half years you know um but yeah they keep coming back and they keep
showing up and they keep me around so it things that I pull into session as well
individual clients because a lot of times it’s this like it’s the what from
our previous experiences are impacting Us in this present moment originally
yoga was from this is just from the information that I have um it started off as just one posture and it was a
seated posture and the main the whole reason for it is to is really for
meditation so even in today’s our version of it physical practice is just
to prep the body for meditation that is the main goal so the
goal of yoga is to prep for meditation that is that is the original so like yes you’re moving your body and there’s a
lot of reference to like why do we want to be flexible in our bodies other than
injury all that stuff like what’s the point and the idea is I don’t know if you guys know like the end posture of
most ASA practices is corpse pose shavasana I don’t know okay
so the the one where you’re like just lying on the ground doing nothing at the very end okay yeah yeah yeah with your
legs crossed right so if you’re like you’re lying like a little like a starfish or something I don’t know oh
you’re ly you’re lying on the ground that’s how that’s how you’re supposed to meditate is lying down or like sitting up no sitting up because you want your
spine to be straight but at the end of a physical yoga PR practice generally you
end your like you complete your circle of practice in shavasana okay which is
called corpse pose okay and so the reason that is because if you when you hear the word corpse
pose it sounds like a little morbid yeah right but the reason is that every time
we do a yogic practice an ASA breath to movement that the way that you move your
body and your the way you’re able to control your breath represents and
reflects how you are living your life it it represents a life cycle for us so at
the end of that physical practice that life cycle you end in shavasana which is corpse
pose and it represents that sleep in between lives because like rebirth
reincarnation right so the idea is that every after every round every flow when
you take that moment to truly allow your mind to rest and be still it’s like you’re that little sleep in between
lives and then when you wake when you come back up it’s an opportunity to start new
again so like you had your you you had your life you had your sleep and now you can see how do I want to change the way
I interact so I’m flexible in body so that I can be flexible in mind but originally it is for the
meditation purposes so each yoga session is supposed to be like a life cycle M if
you look at it like that you can interesting because the idea is if if I
can’t if I have a hard time keeping my mind focused MH and if I if the way that
I’m able or unable to control my breath and impacts my mind then that’s maybe
how I react to things in real life off the mat then have you what are the kind of
benefits that you’ve seen from uh yoga or like these type of teachings in in
mental health and like the mental health realm staying present is really
difficult I how often am I present throughout my day honestly probably not very much and sometimes I feel quite
hypocritical for like preaching it in session or like teaching yoga and then I’m like in the car thinking about God
only knows what but I think what is helpful is that it allows you to be
mindful and create space so when we’re able to be mindful
of our bodies and of our minds then when we find ourselves in uncomfortable situations or when we’re feel like we’re
having a reaction or our mind starts to run if we’re practicing being present for an hour a day or two hours a week or
maybe even if it’s an hourong class and maybe a combination of like 15 minutes
we’re practicing how to be present so if we can practice when we’re in like a fun yoga room or when we’re
like even driving our car and then when you’re in session or when you’re then kind of moving around outside right it’s
just helping you stay present and not letting previous experiences impact your present
State yeah and it really is a practice cuz um even just five minutes can feel
like forever at times especially with clients in the beginning um so in your
sessions like is there a certain time where um it really stood out to you
where you knew like okay this is helping them yes and I always ask because
sometimes it’s like because I observe something doesn’t mean that it’s true for them
right so for example this past week has actually been because sometimes I struggle as a an aspiring clinician
because I kind of battle this with myself of like okay I’m a yoga teacher and I’m a hopeful therapist right but
it’s like how much of it am I bringing in because it’s my comfort zone right or
how much am I bringing in to that session because it is helpful and I think it’s been helpful yeah and a big
part of it is sometimes times particularly in session and especially if like I don’t know someone that well
right like if you look on the outside therapy is kind of crazy like like tell
me everything I just met you tell me all your childhood trauma you know what I mean and sometimes there’s a reaction or
they come in and they’re like I got nothing okay that’s okay you don’t have to talk all the time or if someone’s
they can I can see them getting like really upset say okay let’s bring ourselves back to where we are right now
like we are in this room you’re sitting in a chair you know if we have can objectively look at what is actually
happening and take out all the subtext it I’ve seen people be able to
kind of lower their emotional response or just be able to kind of like
give space between whatever that especially with trauma like PTSD or like specific traumas it just allows them to
put space because unfortunately depending on the severity it like lives in their it seems like it lives in their
body right and then they start to talk about it and their palms are sweating they start shaking it’s like okay
let’s just like kind of practice being Mindful and hopefully ideally eventually
it will invoke a feeling of safety and that’s super helpful I think because so
many people don’t know how to regulate and yoga meditation all these holistic
practices teach you how how do you go back to Baseline line um and
so when the client’s like resistant to any of this um how do you work with
that and this goes for any of your yoga classes or sessions sessions sometimes
people are resistant and it makes sense especially I feel like um there is a a
category of male clients that’s like that’s dumb like like okay and I say
listen it might be dumb but if we kind of look at it like people have been doing this for tens of thousands of
years so might not be super dumb but also I always ask I’m like here’s the reality you’re in a
rehab you’re not here because all the things that you were doing before have worked out really well for you right
like that’s otherwise you wouldn’t be here and listen I want you to go out and prosper but maybe there’s something that
you haven’t tried that you might find benefit from so I’m not asking you to become a yoga master or like meditate
every day for 20 minutes a day whatever like we’re just in this moment and in this therapeutic space this is time for
us to maybe like rehearse or practice things that you can then apply in your own time out and about and I always say
it’s confidential so I can’t tell anyone you know that you’re meditating in the office so that kind of works that’s how
I approach it and so far so good yeah how do you like teach people to meditate so there are a variety of
ways depending on who it is I usually guide I’m comfortable guiding meditation
it’s just like it’s the second nature to me at this point um but sometimes if
they are comfortable sitting we’ll do that um but some I can tell sometimes
they’re not they like can’t quite have like like their back hurts or they have these like aches and pains and then I’ll
this is new I’ll um so when I’m stressed out or if I feel like I’m disregulated
something I do at home is I’ll line on my back and I’ll put my feet on the chair or on the wall so I’m like a
little upside down l or my feet will be kind of hanging out um so I do that at home when I’m like you know I like can I
can like feel the walls closing in so um so some sometimes things will be a little intense I’m like all right let’s
pop off our chairs we just lie on the ground and we put our feet on a chair or on a wall and we’ll just there’s
something nice about having that the blood flow yeah you know kind of reverse it a little bit that I find is really
helpful um but we’ll always start I’ll say if you’re comfortable you can close your
eyes um and I am not like a specialist in any particular type
of interventions at this point or modalities um but like allowing them to
trying to help them like guide them use your breath as a tool relax muscles in your face what is your jaw doing and we
kind of bring awareness and then all right so as we inhale and exhale you’re going to use your breath as a tool to
find those places and spaces in your body that you’re holding on to discomfort or tightness or tension and
then we’ll hover it there and then we’ll say okay can you describe what what does
it feel like in that space is it temperature is it relaxed
okay if we focus the breath on there on that space how does that change it does it change it and then trying to like
associate the feeling in their physical body and then okay while we’re here in that space that’s uncomfortable what do
you think about what emotions do you experience how does it make you feel do you notice like just like different
things and just being really curious and sometime and it seems that that really helps it’s not like we’re
not trying to get away like get rid of it we’re just bringing awareness and being present with ourselves in those
spaces how does that make us feel so they’re learning not to run away from
things but to sit with the uncomfortable feelings yeah I love that I like it cuz
it ties in with like other therapies that we hear about like DBT CBT sematic
therapy all of that combined so awesome so how does Shadow work um and
psychodynamic therapy like how does that all tie in or does it tie in what is Shadow work I don’t I don’t even know
specifically Shadow work was by Carl Yung okay that’s like the big book guy
right the um Carl Yung is the red the red book uh yeah it’s like German it’s
huge Carl yeah y y yian yeah yungan
Theory um I actually listen to a really good podcast that covers it I can’t remember what it’s called I’ll think about it but the idea is that so there’s
there’s multiple steps to Shadow work and it is kind of like the the original
so I’ve read where it’s where ifs kind of gets its Theory
from so with Shadow work it’s the idea that as we’re growing up we’re little
I’m very interested in how when we’re small how it impacts us now so like for
example say I was like super talkative when I was a kid and I was like really
opinionated and I was like always raising my hand and just very active in my classroom and then I had a teacher or
students that like hey you talk a lot like why are you so annoying why you talk so much why do you have so many opinions you’re like oh you’re just so I
that is Who I Am Naturally as yes mean is like talkative and outgoing but then I have all these things that are said to
me and I want to have friends and I want my teachers to like me so I sto doing those things and then I kind of compress
that in the back of my mind and then as I get older I notice because I’m more
quiet I’m even more passive maybe I take on more of that good girl framework you know then I hold on
to that but that doesn’t mean that that part of me that wants to be outgoing and like wild doesn’t exist so she’s still
there like that part of me is still there so I continue when I get older and I go to college and I do well and I get
great grades and I still stay quiet and then I get my first job and I meet another woman who is super
outgoing shares her opinions and I meet her and I’m like I do not like her she’s
annoying she’s so outgoing she’s so talkative why is she like that oh you know and why do I
have that opinion right so the idea is that in Shadow work we have these
different parts of us and it can be with anything but that we sometimes shove them in the back of our minds and then as we get older we start
projecting what we want to have or what we wish we weren’t protecting
and it comes out sometimes as anger or aggression on other people that could be a lot of ways and a
lot of it is like from our caretakers or from different roles caretakers teachers and they can be positive things too
right the shadow isn’t always bad but then taking the time to H okay what is a shadow of mine why do I think that about
myself why am I not allowed to be a certain way and then kind of tying that back
into finding ways to get closer to our authen authentic selves like where did
the beliefs come from and now um digging into it so we’re not fighting against
ourselves pretty much right okay exactly yeah I mean with Shadow work
like have you seen success with it in sessions with your
clients the shadow work is a very resistant it’s very resistant because
for many ways um I haven’t it it’s one of those things where like I’ll provide
the psycho education and we’ll maybe do a couple of things in session but it’s from what I’ve noticed it’s something
that when someone the client takes it home with them and they are able to process it in a more safe space where
they don’t have to give me the details I always tell them I’m like you don’t have to tell me anything right it’s more about what’s happening for you in your
mind so there is how I’ve seen it be really
useful for people and again it’s I feel like a big like this um a theme that
I’ve noticed is like in when we’re able to create space so it’s like maybe I’m going to be
nice for this person or a big thing I noce a shadow work is when people are upset with other people for being
victims they’re like I had a hard time I did it why can’t you suck it up get over
it why is it taking you so long you know it’s like huh wait why am I like that oh
it’s because I couldn’t I never felt like I could ask for help when I was a kid or no one was there to help no one
was there to help me so why should I have to help you no one helped me so it just broadens that lens of kind
of humanity and compassion yeah I feel like that’s just Humanity in a sense you
know I mean a lot of people um kind of
it seems like they always puts fors first you know at least often and I
mean I don’t know I don’t know if I necessarily disagree with it you know
disagree with what it’s like people like putting them themselves
first you get what I mean yeah um that shadow work
Journal I that you were you shared with some clients I love that who’s that by
do you I don’t it is a female author but I don’t know off top of my head yeah that one’s really good I think it’s
because it asks clients and that I can see why it would be resistant or people would be resistant because it keeps
asking to dig deeper dig deeper and if people aren’t ready for that then they’re like oh I don’t want to work on
this yet or I don’t want to approach approach this yes um so do you see a tie
with Shadow work and the holistic methods that you use or are they
completely different modalities it’s a good
question I think that you can always find similarities when you’re trying to reach the same outcome for things yeah
so I think that a big part of Shadow work is being having access to
mindfulness because if you’re if we are unable to be mindful and be present when we’re trying to figure out why we think
a certain way I don’t think we’re ever going to be able to get there right because if I can’t if I’m like okay I’m
really angry about something right now but I just keep thinking about my upbringing or I keep thinking about the
car ride over here how can I ever really know what is actually causing my
emotions or my reactions in that moment so I I think so far it’s it’s about
slowing down our thoughts and the interactions and having an in
introducing and inviting mindfulness into our daily lives then maybe makes other things that
are deeper more accessible how does how does one of the uh Shadow work sessions usually
look so it’s there’s like a they have a workbook or they have different like um
question questions that we ask so it can be in different ways so part of it can
be I’m trying to think I ran a group not too long ago you can I’ll have people look at a
list of things so different defense mechanisms for example so um avoidance
as a defense mechanism why do I avoid things and you’ll say okay like of these
avoidance skills like where do you fall on like do you stone wall your partner
do you not make an appointment that you need to make do you ignore your dad’s
phone calls right so it’s these little things that we do that could be seen as avoiding avoidance and then okay well
why do you avoid oh I just procrastinate I’m just lazy could be but usually that’s not
actually why you’re avoiding something so then we’ll sit there and we’ll say okay like where did you learn like who
else in your ey because I like relationships I think they’re important so I say okay well where did you learn to avoid things from have you seen other
people in your life avoid things did your parents procrastinate did your siblings avoid like what did that look
like when you were growing up and you can kind of like pinpoint and oftentimes avoidance in a shadow work
skill ends up being someone’s so insecure that whatever they try and do
they’re never going to be good enough and so they just don’t even want to bother they have a catastrophizing
thinking right so it’s like well I learned that even when I would try and get things done or I would would try and
accomplish things when I was growing up it was still never good enough for my parents so I don’t even bother
anymore so it’s interesting like a lot of it always ends up kind of being I know I hate to say it but like a lot of
our present internal issues are from our caretakers in some some way or lack of
all of them I can’t say all right I can’t overgeneralize but it seems like a
lot or PE you know yeah from our upbringing so in some way like school or yeah or at
the home um but then at some point like we’re also adults now so we have to
decide do about it now you have to Fig yeah it’s like it doesn’t matter like I
mean not that it doesn’t matter but like okay your parents abandoned you they neglected you you didn’t have like you
didn’t have access to food or water right like your basic needs weren’t met and that is awful and that is like no no
child should every no person should go through that but you did and you’re here so that is showing resilience so we can
take time to say okay we see why an individual acts and believes the things
about themselves in the world that they do but then can we take that information and then find a way to move
forward in a way that’s going to benefit you and your life yeah you know it’s
true like we may not always have um caused the problems but we still are the
ones have to deal with it at the end of the day um and I think that’s where not
only the shadow work but um I think that’s where the holistic methods like
you said could come in to this being present yeah and also it’s like I don’t
think people sit there and reflect as much unless they’re doing therapy or
some sort of journaling self-reflection any of that so that’s what I’ve no
like I was doing just therapy for the longest time and then like I wasn’t really like getting like
happy or I was like it seems like I was just like emptying everything out but then I like started adding like you know
meditation like I have like a meditation like coach pretty much and then like
that’s when I actually started to like feel better CU I was like emptying out all the bad stuff and then replacing it
with good stuff is the way I was looking at it you’re putting it into action then I don’t know no I was just looking at it
as like a positive and a negative like the therapy is like you know cuz I mean
in therapy it does seem like a lot of it is focused on like negative stuff right like you know this happen that or like
you know you’re kind of like talking through bad stuff right then like you know you add like you’re emptying out
all those like feelings but then you know I feel like for if you do that and you’re not replacing it with something
good like you just kind of feel empty so then I just felt kind of like Bland like if it was like if a straight
line was like my base like I was like slightly under a straight line well it’s almost like what if what happens if
maybe instead of trying to replace the negative it’s reframing them CU then you can kind of like skip
out on that whole void process right like I don’t have to feel empty to then replace something but if I can
reframe like I I’ll put you on the spot but like what is something that you feel like negative you had to get rid of her
that you were dumping what do you mean like in my therapy oh man I had like so
much different stuff just like a little one that you don’t mind sharing um well
I was adopted and and my mother passed away when I was like young like a little bit younger than when years did at like
nine so it’s like that’s like of course A Center of you know something that caused a slew of other issues basically
yeah um so it’s like you know I’m I’ve done
therapy for so long and I’ve like always had to basically like work on this like one these couple things back to that
like my biological parents and then like My adoptive parents and then like my mother who passed
away um so like it’s just I did a lot of work
with like ifs with like a therapist and then I don’t know though like I was
doing it like I felt like really like down for like
I don’t know like probably like a month and a half like it’s like but I was doing the work like I was like putting in hard work you know in the therapy
like you know I wasn’t just like neglecting it I was being honest pretty much um and then like it just I just
didn’t really like there wasn’t like a actual shift like shift shift and like
like with me cognitively like where I actually like you know if like this was the line I was like up here right um
there wasn’t really a shift cognitively until I started with like a meditation coach too was your therapist like
telling you like at the end of session would she just like process through stuff and then would she give you any
like assignments assignments or talk about like hate so for can do with it it
was just kind of like more like talking to like your parts it’s like similar to The Shadow work right it’s just like you
know you found this part it’s like you found for me mine was like an exile
right so it’s like we found this part that was like mine was like physically within my mind like trapped behind like a wall
basically and then like you know you get to know the part a little bit but it’s like the part’s still a little doesn’t
really want to you know have a relationship with you or
like yourself because it’s like it was behind the wall for so long like for whatever reason and uh I did all this
work with it and like kind of like got it to come out but it like I the the part that like didn’t want
to like I had even like more success within the therapy itself when like I
started like doing more positive stuff too like it just like created a shift it was like so strange it’s the little
things that make up the big picture MH I swear like it was like the same like so I went to rehab when I was you know over
11 years ago it was like kind of the same thing like I was doing like a lot of like serious like therapy that was
like the first time I was really like seriously doing therapy right like I’d had therapists
before but like I I was on drugs and I would kind of like lie to them then like there was this one that like I found and
that I was honest with and then so like that was working but like at the same time like on that same like line I was
also doing gratitude work yes you know like a lot of like gratitud less gratitude work meditation I think it was
uh biion neuro feedback oh so it was like a bunch of it was like I was emptying out but like this this
particular therapist a lot of it was writing so like it was like a similar thing to like the shadow work but it was
I would like write to like you know like my biological mother like my mother that
passed away and like you know it would start off like uh kind of like understanding but not really
understanding why I understand and then like eventually it would kind of get like angry and then eventually after the
anger would kind of be like you know somewhat of like
a I don’t I don’t really know I don’t even really it’s hard for me to pinpoint like what it was like with the
conclusion I don’t it wasn’t necessarily empathy but it was something else or understanding it was like I
think it’s though and I can’t speak for you in your experience of course but there’s something about being able to
reframe an experience that’s going to benefit you now any of us so like when I
look at what I losing my own mother right to cancer and like kind of
watching that process and it’s really horrible right like it sucks it sucks Mega sucks would not recommend but it
happens to a lot of people so it’s like that could have been a moment like I’m an only child and like I didn’t have
a lot of friends and like I got picked on because I look different from other people like I went to a very white Catholic School like and at the time it
felt really isolating but when I was able to change my frame of like hm what is it costing me to be this upset over
this right what’s costing you what’s it costing me everything costs something so like right now this podcast this is
costing me my time but for me this is worth it right so like this is worth of
worthy of my time but when I had these experiences growing up and I was holding on to all this anger and resentment and
like regrets on what I didn’t didn’t did and did not talk with my mom about because I didn’t know she was going to
die right all that I was holding on to and at some point point it’s like okay how can I shift this and reframe this in
a way because it is literally eating me alive so I’m like okay well you know what I had a mother who loved me
deeply until I was 12 and I know what it’s like to feel real love I got picked
on a bunch didn’t have a lot of friends but who’s friends of that many people from Elementary in high school anyway
and it probably made you more independent yeah I think part of R like yeah I got picked on and like whatever
but I think I’m actually probably funnier because of it like I think I have a great of humor and I don’t think I would have had that if I didn’t
experience those things I so you’re saying like reframing your like past stuff I think that’s what it was like leading to yeah I also found like when
you started putting things in action that’s what I was asking you because like sometimes we process process
process things and then a lot of some therapists don’t like say the kind of
like why they’re doing that with the client and then at the end they’re just like they’re the client’s opening up and
then they’re like okay bye see you next week see yeah and it’s like uh what do I do with that now so I like to always
like at the end be like okay so let’s process through how like how are you
feeling and now I want you to do this and I would give like just simple tasks
like that like meditate gratitude like applying maybe they talked about something like um that they were angry
about and then give them some like practice on you know processing through that that anger just so they see like
they’re putting it in action and there’s actually a point of all of it you know cuz otherwise like it is heavy and then
you don’t know what to do with it work yeah and like really being honest with your therapist yeah it’s like it can be
heavy yeah and it should be heavy at times but you should just be able to know what to do when it does get too
heavy outside I guess I was just wondering like when am I gonna stop feeling this way because i’ never really
like I’ll always have like I think like everybody like ups and downs right like you know it’s just like one of those q9
things like how many days a week do you feel down like how many days a week do you feel anxious it’s like that type of
thing like this was like a long stent of time where like I just felt like bad and
it’s like I was doing therapy and doing a lot of work in it and so it was just strange I feel like that’s my personal
belief is that like you need both I don’t know though
because the the therapy room is just practice so apply it out in the real world you got to apply it yeah and when
you got the meditation coach when you’re doing gratitude you’re applying all of it so I think that getting in your body
is really I think is really important you know and like meditating is getting in your body going on a walk is inside
your body like true there are some clients that we do not do sessions in a room they need to go on a walk and I
love it cuz I also want to go on a walk so it kind of works out like a winwin it’s hard to open up sometimes in just
sitting in front of someone so like we have like all this nervous energy and like sometimes I have nervous energy
just like the way that I exist in the world you know and so sometimes it’s nice like yeah let’s go on a walk and
sometimes I can’t keep up with them they’re walking so fast you know which tells me something hm I wonder why what’s going on why are you walking so
fast are you racing me like what’s happening like oh well I this happened and then that kind of gives you even
more clues and like more ways to observe your clients it’s true H I also like
what you said about um yeah like reframing your negative experiences
right into positive I feel like um it reminds me of that man search for meaning have you guys read that I
haven’t read yet that was by Victor Frankle Victor Fran that one’s like he was like a in a Jewish concentration
camp and he’s like and survived it was a really good book don’t I thought they made all like don’t they make at least
used to make all like therapists read that book right it was I read it in
school yeah I read it in a mental health class and it was basically all about um
even in the worst circumstance right the Holocaust of course you can find meaning for your suffering and find um and he
was like a doctor I think so he was like helping other people um during that time even while he was in the concentration
camp and he found that everyone who found a meaning in it even in that terrible experience was resilient yeah
and so like that’s what I try to tie in a lot um with because these clients have
been through the worst trauma and I can’t even try to say like I know what
they’re experiencing you know but it’s um if they can find some way to find
some meaning towards why they’re suffering and use that to help people that can help them survive and be
resilient yeah it gives them purpose meaning all of it purpose is important I think that’s why they probably tell
people to read it cuz I think without purpose like of course people are going
to turn to drugs or you know their mental Health’s going to deteriorate and
all it’s a pretty good book too yeah we should actually require people to read it here I don’t know if they’ll
be able to I don’t know if maybe I’ll share about it in a group yeah there we go there we go just make a little like
spark nose on it um one of the so oh just one second where we at where at
on time you’re about you’re about an hour an hour oh we’re already an hour in oh [ __ ] but then like so mine is
probably like 10 right yeah okay so one thing that I really wanted to go over just for like the holidays and people
who might be um dealing with family like what is your I know that what you do has a
little bit to do with family relations right did you want to go into that a little bit yeah um I will I’ll I will
never give advice on how what any individual should do in a family setting on the holidays because everyone is
wildly different just education no I know I like to I like to give little like little like asteris before I before
I go into things so my little as that was my Aster um but
sometimes holidays it’s helpful just to be like this is just another
Wednesday if you can if you can this is we’re we’ll go through the different the different option I love I love options
I’m an option Queen right so number one sometimes if you have the option or especially if people are alone on the
holidays and they really don’t have anywhere to go and if they’re not a part of any a part of any community and if
it’s something that really drags on them it’s like if there is any way if you
have the capacity to be like today is just a Wednesday today is just Thursday
but in those family Dynamics and we have the cousin drives us insane our moms and dads who are like
blowing us up with questions and we get like back into like kid mode where we like oh please don’t touch me like
everyone’s hugging you and like you’re like I don’t want to be hugged anymore you know all these things try and
establish boundaries I would say if
possible um also don’t push yourself to what you know is going to put you beyond the brink so if you know that going to
Grandma and Grandpa’s house is going to make you want to like especially those of us people that are in recovery like
if you know going to someone’s house is going to destroy you and that you’re going to want to run to the liquor store
just don’t go and yeah there might be repercussions to that but you have to weigh out what’s going to be what’s it
costing me what’s it worth to me am I able to handle myself am I not or maybe
if you can seek out if there’s a certain family member that you do connect with maybe like hey I know I have to go to
Christmas dinner but can you be like my support throughout this like hey you
know these things really bother me and I I want to go but I don’t know how to like handle that so trying to find like
someone that you can kind of work with um and then last but not least try and invite that creating space between all
of the previous experiences and then what’s happening in the present moment like I think objective observation is
amazing so you go in a room you have like 10 people you hate eight of them but they’re all your family members and
you can’t not go because you promised your mom that you’d be there that Christmas and so when people start talking it’s like okay H what is
actually happening right now so like this we’re not filming a podcast the only thing
that’s happening right now is there are three bodies well five these guys too
are in a room and there are four walls and that is it literally nothing else is
happening everything else is what we attach to it so like when your aunt is is being annoying and like asking me why
oh like you’ve gained weight California you know I’m like like you know instead it’s like no no I literally just a body and she’s a body and we’re in this room
and she is just like speaking at me and I just here and there’s a cabinet you
know so like taking those times to ground yourself and okay what is actually happening versus what am I
making uh my meaning making that I’m doing it’s like a form of meditation almost M that’s right that’s what I got
do you guys anything want to add as far as those with families and holidays I don’t I’m not the best ask
though I think just try to look for the positives like keep it simple like yeah
they’re going to be saying stuff and but guess what you don’t get to you don’t see them all the time maybe you do I
don’t know but a lot of the times you don’t see them all the time so appreciate the time together eat the pie
go home yep it doesn’t have to be that serious but I like that like don’t attach
yourself to things it’s kind of the same concept yeah I like that or don’t go go
whatever um yeah so any closing statements or um words of wisdom about
any of the subjects we talked about let’s think in the spirit of the yoga conversation reminding ourselves
that everything is temporary and so the idea of hold on tightly Let Go Lightly so when things
are good love it be a part of it but when they’re not there anymore just let them
go so it’s all temporary thank you I learned a lot
thank you
